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KG_Cloghaun
10-23-2007, 06:36 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/10/18/pakistan.explosions/index.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304279,00.html

I saw this woman (exiled Prime Minister) interviewed on NBC news last night. If you take what she says at face value, she seems like she really wants to bring peace & Democracy to her country. She must be doing something right if so many people are trying so hard to kill her.

Pakistan is a very interesting country.

KG_Kharkov
10-24-2007, 09:18 AM
Bhutto has a long, controversial history with Pakistan. Think of her kind of like a Hillary Clinton. Her father ran the country til 79 when he was executed. The military took over until General Zia was assassinated. Bhutto was elected twice as prime minister but both terms were plagued with charges of rampant corruption.

Pakistan, as a tribal oriented country not steeped in the Western democratic ethic, generally is the most stable when under military rule. General Musharraf has actually provided extraordinary stability to the region.

Americans tend to think of Pakistan as a small country but it has a population of 160 million which is over half the size of the U.S. (current population around 300 million). So when you see those protests of 5,000 people in Karachi, keep that in mind. Or when you see someone gunned down in the street, sometimes that isn't much different than urban Detroit.

Here's information on Bhutto, and here's information on Pakistan:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benazir_Bhutto

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan

KG_Cloghaun
11-03-2007, 02:54 PM
Musharraf declares state of emergency
Troops surround Bhutto’s home; U.S. calls developments ‘regrettable’

MSNBC News Services



ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - Gen. Pervez Musharraf declared a state of emergency in Pakistan on Saturday, ahead of a crucial Supreme Court ruling on his future as president, thrusting the country deeper into political turmoil as it struggles to contain spreading Islamic militancy.

Seven Supreme Court judges immediately rejected the emergency, which suspended the current constitution. The government blocked all television transmissions in major cities other than state-run Pakistan TV, and telephone services in the capital, Islamabad, were cut.

Opposition leader Benazir Bhutto flew from Dubai on Saturday and was sitting on a plane at Karachi airport, waiting to see if she would be arrested or deported, her spokesman Wajid Hasan said after speaking to the former prime minister by telephone from London.

Witnesses said 100 police and paramilitary troops were deployed at her home in Karachi, though it was not immediately clear if they were there as a protective cordon or to apprehend the opposition leader. A bomb disposal squad was also at the scene.

“The chief of army staff has proclaimed a state of emergency and issued a provisional constitutional order,” a newscaster on PTV said, adding that Musharraf would address the nation at 11 p.m. (7 p.m. ET).

A copy of the emergency order obtained by The Associated Press justified the declaration on the grounds that “some members of the judiciary are working at cross purposes with the executive” and “weakening the government’s resolve” to fight terrorism.

PTV reported that a new chief justice had been appointed to replace Iftikhar Mohammed Chaudhry, whom Musharraf tried and failed to oust this spring, sparking a popular movement against military rule. Judge Abdul Hameed Dogar was sworn in by Musharraf in his place.

The state of emergency follows weeks of speculation that the military leader, who took power in a 1999 coup and later made Pakistan a U.S. ally in its war on terror, could take the step. Military vehicles patrolled and troops blocked roads in the administrative heart of the capital.

‘Highly regrettable’
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has urged a swift return to democracy in Pakistan and says it is “highly regrettable” the president has declared a state of emergency.

The U.S. and other Western allies urged Musharraf this week not to declare martial law or an emergency that would jeopardize the country’s transition to democracy. Crucial parliamentary elections are due by January, which are meant to restore civilian rule.

The emergency was expected to be followed by arrests of lawyers and other perceived opponents of the government, including civil society activists and possibly even members of the judiciary itself, a ruling party lawmaker said on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.

Private Geo TV reported that the president of the Supreme Court Bar Association, Aitzaz Ahsan, had been arrested. He was a lawyer for Chaudhry in the case that led to his reinstatement in July.

As telephone lines were cut, it was not possible to contact government spokesmen for confirmation.

‘The whole nation will resist’
Chaudhry and other judges drove out of the court building in a convoy of black cars over two hours after the emergency was declared, under police escort. A police officer at the scene said they were being shifted to their official residences nearby.

During previous emergencies in Pakistan, a provisional constitutional order has led to the suspension of some basic rights of citizens and for judges to take a fresh oath of office.

“This is the most condemnable act,” Ahsan Iqbal, a spokesman for the opposition PML-N party of former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, said of the emergency. Musharraf barred Sharif from returning to Pakistan from exile in September to mount a campaign against military rule.

“The whole nation will resist this extraconstitutional measure,” he said.

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21609019/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21609019/)

KG_Cloghaun
11-03-2007, 02:57 PM
What's your take on this, John? From the information you provided & what I've read, Bhutto seems like the person to be rooting for in this mess.

KG_ThorsHammer
11-03-2007, 07:15 PM
i'd say someone doesnt want to give up power.

KG_Kharkov
11-05-2007, 12:46 PM
There's a great article on this in the front page of today's Wall Street Journal. Basically, the military has run the country for most of the past 4 decades. Those civilian leaders who ran the country heavily courted the military's favor.

Traditionally, the military has been very very popular. My mother always said that Pakistanis loved military rule because the country was a lot more stable. Today's WSJ article talks about how the military's public support has eroded over the past few years as the rise of militant Islamic attacks in Pakistan starts to be felt by the general population. The military is firmly entrenched at the highest levels of government with many ex-officers serving in key posts.

I would suspect that Musharaff will stay in power after a series of protests. The military will support him and the parliament will as well since it is very pro-Musharaff. The U.S., being more concerned with stability than democracy, will continue to provide aid to Musharaff rather than risk losing its biggest ally in that region. All you will see is your typical statements from Condi about how Musharaff shouldn't be doing what he is doing.

The realist would say that a pro-American Pakistani military is something we need so we'll have to sacrifice our democracy agenda for the sake of promoting our agenda in Afghanistan and Iraq.

KG_Swampfox
11-05-2007, 01:21 PM
The realist would say that a pro-American Pakistani military is something we need so we'll have to sacrifice our democracy agenda for the sake of promoting our agenda in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Well said, not all countries are ready for or support a democratic style of goverment.

Politically speaking, the U.S. struggles to understand that not all peoples want to be saved by us.

KG_Soldier
11-05-2007, 01:55 PM
Well... Pat, I'd say many Pakistanis want a democratically elected government, but the problem with that is they would probably elect in an islamist government.

KG_Cloghaun
12-27-2007, 11:52 AM
What a damn shame. I've been following her for months now reading her exploits & it's led to this..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22406555/?gt1=10645

KG_Soldier
12-28-2007, 01:50 AM
What we need is an American agent, disguised as a lawer, to infiltrate their defenses and launch a Paki nuke into Waziristan: John?

KG_Cloghaun
12-28-2007, 01:58 AM
Speaking from ignorance, how is it that Pakistan & India were even allowed to get nukes in the first place? I'm surprised Israel didn't try to bomb them.

KG_Soldier
12-28-2007, 07:52 PM
http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/India/IndiaMomentum.html